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Client asks for illegal work (Consumer Law & Fraud)

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• Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:57:00 GMT(1)
• Thanks for your reply!
  And I totally agree. Except I want to know if his asking me to violate federal copyright law voids any agreement? His claim is that I breached the contract by not continuing with the job. Mine is that he breached it by requiring me to do something illegal.
  Any thoughts on that?
  Dixie
• Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:16:00 GMT(2)
• "Except I want to know if his asking me to violate federal copyright law voids any agreement?"
  * No, it does not. He can ask you to do anything, but as long as it was not done, no violation (or waiver of obligation).
  "His claim is that I breached the contract by not continuing with the job. Mine is that he breached it by requiring me to do something illegal."
  * He didn't REQUIRE you to. He simply asked you to do it. Your response should have been to contact him in writing with a detailed list of the 'problems', that it was possibly illegal without the copyright owners permission and give him an opportunity to resolve the issue (providing written permission from copyright holders) or to negotiate a termination of your obligation.
• Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:40:00 GMT(3)
• "Does that not prove my claim?"
  * Your post is not clear on what 'claim' you mean. If you mean does it prove your claim of right to 'termination of contract', the answer is no.
  "Nowhere in my estimate do I promise legal advice (he should consult and pay his attorney about that)."
  * Agreed. But this was obviously a concern that you had (even without legal experience). And as stated in my earlier post, you had an obligation to DOCUMENT your concerns to him and resolve the problem.
  "I mean, how many times are you supposed to sit down with your clients and explain, "You can't steal?"
  * Only once, if you put it in WRITING and give him TWO options.... resolve teh copyright problem or negotiate termination.
  "We had this conversation simply because his previous newsletters and other marketing materials were full of articles that had been copied and pasted, photos that had been lifted, templates that are for personal use only. This is why we had the conversation about copyright law."
  * If that is the case, then you should have known about his 'usage' BEFORE you got seven hours into the project, shouldn't you?
  "If a contractor, say a roofer, gives me an estimate and I give him a deposit, and he begins ripping off shingles, but then I come back and tell him that the only thing I'll be satisfied with is a design of a naked lady on my roof (which would violate decency laws), I would expect him to stop the job and keep that portion of the deposit that he earned."
  * Useless 'analogy'. First off, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with copyright issues and second, a picture of a naked lady on your roof would NOT violate any laws.
  A better analogy would be if someone contacted you about driving the getaway car during their bank robbery. You agreed and actually drove them to the bank. When the police show up, you drive away. Does that mean you are innocent of any crime? No.
  Simply, you knew (or should have known) of his prior use of copyrighted material and agreed to develop the website for hire anyway. When it became an issue, you bailed.
  My suggestion is two choices:
  1) Gather up all the evidence that you have of his INSTRUCTING you to use copyrighted material without permission. Then, deduct your compensation from the deposit and send him an invoice showing the deposit, your retention and a check for the remaining balance. Then if he decides to sue over your 'breach', you will have the documents you need to present in court.
  or
  2) Send him the full deposit back and tell him to KYA.
• Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:51:00 GMT(4)
• Thanks once again!
  Actually, we had previously had a detailed discussion on copyright law. His instructions, which are in writing and which HE provided to the court, were to take someone else's graphics for his use. Does that not prove my claim?
  In his explanation of the case, he admits freely to the discussion we had, but explains that he expected me to be the expert on that and advise him. Nowhere in my estimate do I promise legal advice (he should consult and pay his attorney about that).
  I mean, how many times are you supposed to sit down with your clients and explain, "You can't steal?" We had this conversation simply because his previous newsletters and other marketing materials were full of articles that had been copied and pasted, photos that had been lifted, templates that are for personal use only. This is why we had the conversation about copyright law.
  If a contractor, say a roofer, gives me an estimate and I give him a deposit, and he begins ripping off shingles, but then I come back and tell him that the only thing I'll be satisfied with is a design of a naked lady on my roof (which would violate decency laws), I would expect him to stop the job and keep that portion of the deposit that he earned. It wouldn't be his place to tell me more than once that it was illegal to display naked women on my house in SC.
  I would expect hiim to cover his own ass.
  I guess in this case, I could be sued for breach of contract by this guy, or for copyright violation by some huge web design company. The lesser of two evils?
  Thanks very much for your responses.
  Dixie
• Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:42:00 GMT(5)
• Give the money back to him and be done with him. You're better off keeping your integrity. While you may or may not win in court based on your lack of a contract, at 7 hours (even if you get paid as much as I pay my programmers), you're only losing about $800 so consider it a good lesson on ethics in business.
  And NEVER take on any more work without a signed contract.
• Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:25:00 GMT(6)
• I like #2.
• Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:01:00 GMT(7)

• Quote:

  Except I want to know if his asking me to violate federal copyright law voids any agreement?

  Not unless you did what he asked and have proof that he asked you to perform such a task.
  

  Quote:

  His claim is that I breached the contract by not continuing with the job. Mine is that he breached it by requiring me to do something illegal.

  Yes, he can prove you breached the contract simply because you did not follow through.
  You cannot prove your claim since you have no contract or change log signed by him requesting illegal activity.
  Again, get as far away from this idiot as possible.
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