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ADA Service Dog Question (Government & Administrative Law)

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• Fri, 09 Jan 2009 09:13:00 GMT(1)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by kis2533

  What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Utah
  A lady comes into the restaurant that I manage with a Dog. When ever she is asked about the dog she says it is a "service animal" then describes its duties as visiting hospitals and schools to make sick people feel better. This describes a "therapy dog". I asked her flat out.."Is this a service animal?" she said yes. THen I asked "What tasks does it do for you"?. She would only talk about how it goes to hospitals and stuff.
  This lady is crazy! (Like for Real). Based on the info she gave me, the "therapy" dog has no public access rights. I fear that the dog may also be a Emotional support Animal because it is very "pet like". Perhaps it may be a Psychotic Support Animal for her own lunacy but she may be too embarrassed to tell me that it performs services for her.
  Emotional support animals do not have public access rights (I think) but Psychotic support animals do. (I think) How can I decide if she is legit or not?
  She has threatend me with a 25K fine but I feel she needs to do a better job describing the tasks the dog performs for HER! SHe has never told me that!
  Please help.

  
  One other comment. I know of organizations that are training Dogs as "Service/Therapy" dogs for War Veterans suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. So, I would not be surprised if you experience more "confusion" in the future as to if a dog is allowed access (based simply on the way a person "Looks").
  However, as a concerned owner of a Restaurant, you have NOTHING to worry about with real service animals/guide dogs.
  I would say how you can "solve" the problem is not to challenge her based on what she tells you, but how the dog behaves. AS a former poster explained, a service animal should be "Invisible" to others.
  If the dog is "disruptive" to other Patrons, simply ask her to remove the dog from teh premises. (BY THE WAY--"disruptive" does NOT mean that someone near the lady decides to complain because they are "afraid" or "allergic" to dogs---in that case, you have to make accommodations to the "Complaining Party"---and NOT ask the lady with the dog to move. The lady with the dog has 1 % "equal" rights to sit anywhere in the establishment anyone else would sit. Therefore the "complainant" would need to be moved--not the lady with the dog.
  At the end of the day, if this lady has a dog she brings in---and as long as the dog is not disruptive--and "acts" like a service animal, I would let her allow it.
  If you're concerned about "Health Code" violations as a Restaurateur---you are "protected" under ADA--as it was your belief she was allowed access--so you cannot get "fined" based on that.
  Otherwise, I don't understand what the concern is.
• Fri, 12 Dec 2008 07:10:00 GMT(2)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by perroloco2

  Excellent posts, SDUsr! I have just one clarification. I believe the bolded part is not quite correct. State laws may or may not be more restrictive than the federal law. In those cases, whichever law provides the most protection for the disabled is the one that applies.

  That is true, sorry for the confusion! I meant to say that since the federal law does not require IDs in order for the disabled person to bring their service animal with them, a business cannot require somebody to furnish an ID even if their state law says it is required. (The only exemption to this statement would be if the state law gives access to a place the federal law doesn't cover, but since almost every public place is covered under federal laws, this is not likely to happen.)
  If a person is covered under a state's law, but not under the federal law, then they go by the state law when they are in that state. (They are out of luck once they leave the state, of course.) This would be the case if Utah did indeed pass that law giving access to people with emotional support animals (which are not service animals and are not under the federal ADA law).
  [Emotional support animals are under the federal housing laws as well as under the Air Carrier Access Act; access requires a letter from the disabled person's doctor. Plane access for psychiatric service animals also requires a letter from the disabled person's doctor. A doctor's letter can be required for any type of service animal for housing, as well.]
• Mon, 08 Dec 2008 20:00:00 GMT(3)
• thats a voluntary service. Not required by ADA.
• Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:35:00 GMT(4)
• What is necroposting? I new to this I don't know the rules.
• Tue, 29 Sep 2009 05:08:00 GMT(5)
• Felt I had to jump in here, Jeff, you might think of the whole ada breif page, rather than just the parts you like.
  here is the whole page direct from the US Department of Justice Site
  COMMONLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT
  SERVICE ANIMALS IN PLACES OF BUSINESS
  1. Q: What are the laws that apply to my business?
  A: Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), privately owned businesses that serve the public, such as restaurants, hotels, retail stores, taxicabs, theaters, concert halls, and sports facilities, are prohibited from discriminating against individuals with disabilities. The ADA requires these businesses to allow people with disabilities to bring their service animals onto business premises in whatever areas customers are generally allowed.
  2. Q: What is a service animal?
  A: The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. If they meet this definition, animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local government.
  Service animals perform some of the functions and tasks that the individual with a disability cannot perform for him or herself. Guide dogs are one type of service animal, used by some individuals who are blind. This is the type of service animal with which most people are familiar. But there are service animals that assist persons with other kinds of disabilities in their day-to-day activities. Some examples include:
  _ Alerting persons with hearing impairments to sounds.
  _ Pulling wheelchairs or carrying and picking up things for persons with mobility impairments.
  _ Assisting persons with mobility impairments with balance.
  A service animal is not a pet.
  3. Q: How can I tell if an animal is really a service animal and not just a pet?
  A: Some, but not all, service animals wear special collars and harnesses. Some, but not all, are licensed or certified and have identification papers. If you are not certain that an animal is a service animal, you may ask the person who has the animal if it is a service animal required because of a disability. However, an individual who is going to a restaurant or theater is not likely to be carrying documentation of his or her medical condition or disability. Therefore, such documentation generally may not be required as a condition for providing service to an individual accompanied by a service animal. Although a number of states have programs to certify service animals, you may not insist on proof of state certification before permitting the service animal to accompany the person with a disability.
  4. Q: What must I do when an individual with a service animal comes to my business?
  A: The service animal must be permitted to accompany the individual with a disability to all areas of the facility where customers are normally allowed to go. An individual with a service animal may not be segregated from other customers.
  5. Q: I have always had a clearly posted "no pets" policy at my establishment. Do I still have to allow service animals in?
  A: Yes. A service animal is not a pet. The ADA requires you to modify your "no pets" policy to allow the use of a service animal by a person with a disability. This does not mean you must abandon your "no pets" policy altogether but simply that you must make an exception to your general rule for service animals.
  6. Q: My county health department has told me that only a guide dog has to be admitted. If I follow those regulations, am I violating the ADA?
  A: Yes, if you refuse to admit any other type of service animal on the basis of local health department regulations or other state or local laws. The ADA provides greater protection for individuals with disabilities and so it takes priority over the local or state laws or regulations.
  7. Q: Can I charge a maintenance or cleaning fee for customers who bring service animals into my business?
  A: No. Neither a deposit nor a surcharge may be imposed on an individual with a disability as a condition to allowing a service animal to accompany the individual with a disability, even if deposits are routinely required for pets. However, a public accommodation may charge its customers with disabilities if a service animal causes damage so long as it is the regular practice of the entity to charge non-disabled customers for the same types of damages. For example, a hotel can charge a guest with a disability for the cost of repairing or cleaning furniture damaged by a service animal if it is the hotel's policy to charge when non-disabled guests cause such damage.
  8. Q: I operate a private taxicab and I don't want animals in my taxi; they smell, shed hair and sometimes have "accidents." Am I violating the ADA if I refuse to pick up someone with a service animal?
  A: Yes. Taxicab companies may not refuse to provide services to individuals with disabilities. Private taxicab companies are also prohibited from charging higher fares or fees for transporting individuals with disabilities and their service animals than they charge to other persons for the same or equivalent service.
  9. Q: Am I responsible for the animal while the person with a disability is in my business?
  A: No. The care or supervision of a service animal is solely the responsibility of his or her owner. You are not required to provide care or food or a special location for the animal.
  1 . Q: What if a service animal barks or growls at other people, or otherwise acts out of control?
  A: You may exclude any animal, including a service animal, from your facility when that animal's behavior poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others. For example, any service animal that displays vicious behavior towards other guests or customers may be excluded. You may not make assumptions, however, about how a particular animal is likely to behave based on your past experience with other animals. Each situation must be considered individually.
  Although a public accommodation may exclude any service animal that is out of control, it should give the individual with a disability who uses the service animal the option of continuing to enjoy its goods and services without having the service animal on the premises.
  11. Q: Can I exclude an animal that doesn't really seem dangerous but is disruptive to my business?
  A: There may be a few circumstances when a public accommodation is not required to accommodate a service animal--that is, when doing so would result in a fundamental alteration to the nature of the business. Generally, this is not likely to occur in restaurants, hotels, retail stores, theaters, concert halls, and sports facilities. But when it does, for example, when a dog barks during a movie, the animal can be excluded.
  If you have further questions about service animals or other requirements of the ADA, you may call the U.S. Department of Justice's toll-free ADA Information Line at 8 -514- 3 1 (voice) or 8 -514- 383 (TDD).
  Any State, County, City, etc Health department Law, is allways trumped by the Federal Statute, as any first year law student could tell yah!
• Mon, 08 Dec 2008 20:17:00 GMT(6)
• Is your problem that she brings the dog into the establishment or that she is loitering there and she is strange and you don't want her there, with or without the dog?
  I understand that she is threatening that if you ban her, she will claim illegal discrimination against her service animal. But of you are banning her and not the dog, that's kind of moot.
• Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:14:00 GMT(7)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by AdviceDude

  this lady DOES NOT have to describe to you "why" she needs a service animal. That is PRIVATE Medical information.

  While no business can demand to be told what a person's disability is (i.e. blindness, deafness, seizure disorder, etc.), they can legally ask what tasks the animal is trained to do that mitigate the person's disability. They can also legally ask IF the person is disabled (a yes or no answer) and if the dog in question is the person's service dog.
  

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by AdviceDude

  This information is protected under HIPPA.

  HIPAA has nothing to do with businesses like restaurants, stores, etc. That only has to do with doctors and other medical field personnel not releasing medical information to anybody without permission from the person. It has nothing to do with other fields, businesses, nor somebody's personal choice to disclose information to anybody. It has nothing to do with the restaurant, business owner, woman, and dog in question (or any others).
  

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by AdviceDude

  1st-the appropriate "Jacket" the dog will wear. (Describing it as a service animal). It will be CLEAR the dog is a "working dog".

  The presence of vests, jackets, packs, harnesses, etc. is not required under the federal law. It would be just as legal for somebody with a guide dog in a guide dog harness to bring their dog into the restaurant as it would be legal for somebody with a seizure alert dog with just a collar and leash to bring their dog into the restaurant. So, if somebody happens to forget their dog's vest (such as they weren't planning on stopping by the store on the way home from a friend's house, vet, park, etc.), they can still enter a business just like everybody else can.
  Harnesses are needed by some teams for certain tasks (such as guide dog harnesses so a blind or visually impaired person can be guided by the dog easily or a mobility harnesses so a mobility impaired person can be helped with balance by the dog's trained mobility work) - in many cases, people don't use both harnesses and vests/jackets/packs. While dressing a dog in a vest/jacket/pack (if not in harness, or in addition to a harness) is helpful and highly recommended (due to less access hassles from businesses and less drive-by pettings from the general public), it is not required by federal law.
  

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by AdviceDude

  2nd -In addition, based on what state you are in, she will have a "License" that she carries indicating her need for the dog.

  A business cannot ask to see such "proof". Many people with service animals do not have an ID card, "license", certification, etc. due to an organization not furnishing one, having the dog trained by a private trainer who did not issue one, or having self-trained the dog - all of which are legal ways for a dog to be trained as a service animal (each way having to meet the same standards of training). Most people, even if they do have it, will not show it because nobody else shows ID in order to enter a restaurant, store, etc. so showing such would be discriminatory (akin to Hitler's star patches and freed slaves' freedom papers).
  Beyond that, anybody can purchase such a card from a scam artist on the Internet or make up their own such card very easily without the dog having even been trained to pee outdoors or sit. IDs mean nothing. Even IDs from programs and trainers that are called "certification" don't have much meaning to them, as there is no state or federal certification and no state or federal standard for training (beyond that a service animal must be individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of the individual with a disability and that they must be trained to behave well enough in public that they don't get kicked out for being disruptive).
  

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by AdviceDude

  Those are BIG red flags if she is unable to produce that kind of "normal" information.

  While the animal not being dressed in working gear may make a business want to look harder into the dog being a service dog or pet, it is not a big, red flag. A handler not showing an ID card, tag, etc. is in no way a red flag, as a business cannot legally ask to see such a thing. Most handlers know not to flash such cards because it teaches businesses to look for such and not every team has, carries, or is willing under any circumstance (save for court) to show such a card in the U.S. IDs are not "normal".
  

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by AdviceDude

  things you can look for are how the dog behaves--a "working dog"--should ALWAYS, 1 % of the time "behave".

  Yes, the dog's behavior should always be looked at when determining the dog's status. Dogs are not robots, however, so are not perfect 1 % of the time. Just like humans, they do make mistakes, get distracted, get sick suddenly, etc. The majority of the time they are "invisible" - you don't even know they are there until you see them or see them move (some people have thought somebody had a giant stuffed animal with them until they saw the dog move, LOL). In a restaurant, they will walk quietly beside (or in front of, for some tasks and in crowded/not wide enough areas) their handler, sometimes doing tasks like guiding or helping with walking, when the handler is walking to/from the table, to/from the restroom, to/from the salad bar/buffet, etc. While at the table, the dog will lay quietly under the table (or next to it, but never in the way where staff or patrons can trip over the dog - in that case, you can tell the person to move the animal, as it is a safety hazard) the entire dinner unless the dog is doing a task for the person (such as alerting to the onset of a seizure, retrieving a dropped item, etc.).
  

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by AdviceDude

  if it is a "Real" working dog--and it barks or "disrupts" business in any fashion---YOU DO HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT to ask her to remove the dog from the premises

  A single bark does not give a business the legal right to kick a real service dog out. If the dog is continuously barking and disturbing the business (i.e. during a movie), that is a legal reason to kick the dog out after the handler has been given reasonable time to correct the problem. An aggressive dog, which would not be a real service dog, is another example of a dog a business could kick out.
  If a dog causes damage in the business, such as accidentally knocks an item off a shelf with its tail and the item breaks, you can charge the handler whatever fee you would charge a non-disabled patron for the same damage (i.e. if a child broke something and you would charge their parent the cost of the item, you can charge the handler the cost of the item their dog broke, but if you do not normally charge a customer for breaking an item, you cannot charge the handler for the item their dog broke as that would be discriminatory).
  Remember that service dogs are an extension of the person just like wheelchairs, canes, prosthetic limbs, etc. are. They are legally medical devices just like wheelchairs, canes, prosthetic limbs, etc. are. (They legally are not pets.)
  

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by AdviceDude

  as a "Trainer"---I have the same "legal entry rights" as a person covered under teh ADA (I am not disabled).

  That is absolutely NOT true. The ADA is for disabled people. You have no rights under the ADA since you are not disabled, therefore you have no right under the ADA to have a trained service animal with you in any business. No person, disabled or not, has the right under the ADA to have a service animal in training with them in any business. While some states do have laws giving access to certain types of or all types of (depending on the state) trainers with service animals in training so you may be covered under your state's law, the ADA does not apply to you and you cannot use it to gain access with any dog, fully trained or still in training.
  

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by AdviceDude

  I am taught that if I'm ever denied entrance to a place of business, I "POLITELY" remind the Manager of the ADA laws--I give them a copy of it and I leave. We are taught NEVER to "argue" with the establishment.

  While politeness is always a must (for anybody at any time in any situation), no disabled person with a service dog does or should leave if denied access. While it is okay for you, since you have no problems going to or using public places like restaurants and stores and do not have an actual need to have the dog with you, a disabled person has no choice but to have their service dog with them - or not go in the public place. As a volunteer, you should remember to put yourself in the shoes of the person you are helping train the dog for and realize that without the dog, they cannot do the things most people take for granted, such as shop, eat out, get groceries, see a movie or play, vacation or travel on business, etc. Volunteers and trainers shouldn't push access rights (if their state gives them such) as much as a disabled handler should, of course, since there isn't an actual need for the dog to be in that particular store, which is why the program you are with tells you not to argue.
  But access and access challenges for disabled people are very different. Just imagine somebody told you that you couldn't enter their business because of your shade of skin color, your ethnicity, or some other factor that you in no way can help - that is what it is like when a disabled person is denied access due to their disability (whether it is because of how they look or because of the medical device they use, such as a wheelchair or service animal - and yes, there have been instances in the U.S. of people having access issues because the business did not want a wheelchair on their floor!).
  Equal access is what it is all about.
• Fri, 09 Jan 2009 09:31:00 GMT(8)
• I would also like to underscore that a service dog (or therapy dog in this instance) is ONLY allowed when that animal accompanies the person to whom that dog provides service.
  It seems that the person in the question takes her dog to the hospital to make people feel better. Great. Very nice.
  But unless those same people accompany her to the restaurant, I don't see a problem with barring that dog from entry.
  Lastly, as of this date, therapy dogs are NOT given the same rights as service animals.
• Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:56:00 GMT(9)
• I am not a Lawyer, however I would assume that if you can pass the "test" for Social Security Disability, then you would "pass the test" of a Disabled Person under ADA.
  (by the way, claiming Disability under Social Security is VERY difficult--so I'd use that as an "elementary guide" if you should allow this woman access or not.
  In a nut shell, this is why Lawyers are RICH--they get paid to argue this stuff all day long.
  **
  Social Security
  List of Disorders covered for Social Security Disability--ADULT
  Listing of Impairments - Adult Listings (Part A)
  Mental Disorders
  12. -Mental Disorders-Adult
  *
  By the way, I found "Case Law" for you to review:
  **
  From a "Recent" Proposed Rule Making
  Transcript of Public Hearing on Proposals to Amend Regulations under Titles II and III of the ADA
  DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
  JULY 15, 2 8
  9: A,M.
  PUBLIC HEARING ON
  NOTICES OF PROPOSED RULEMAKING
  Lot's of discussions regarding "Dogs".
  **
  (since you said you were from UTAH--I tried to pull cases from there)
  **
  Settlement Agreement Under the Americans with Disabilities Act of 199 between the United States of America and Yellow Cab Drivers Association, Inc. of Salt Lake City, Ut
  SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT UNDER THE AMERICAN WITH DISABILITIES ACT of 199
  BETWEEN
  THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND
  YELLOW CAB DRIVERS ASSOCIATION, INC. OF SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH
  a woman who is blind and uses a guide dog filed a complaint with the Department of Justice alleging that she was refused a taxi ride to return home from a grocery store, based on the presence of her service animal
  **
  FAIR HOUSING
  JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SETTLES DISABILITY DISCRIMINATION CASE WITH CONNECTICUT LANDLORD FOR $115,
  On June 2, 2 8, the Court entered a consent decree resolving United States v. Hussein (D. Conn.). The lawsuit, filed on August 1, 2 7, alleged that Mahmoud M. Hussein refused to grant a reasonable accommodation from his no-pets policy so that his tenant's minor daughter could work with an assistance dog to help with her cerebral palsy, seizure disorder, and depression. The lawsuit further alleged that Hussein retaliated against the mother and daughter after they attempted to exercise their rights under the Fair Housing Act by refusing to renew their annual lease and beginning eviction proceedings. The tenant and her daughter filed a separate lawsuit that also will be resolved by the consent decree. Press Release
  Under the consent decree, the defendant will pay $115, in monetary relief, including $1 2, to compensate the tenant and her daughter and $13, in attorneys fees. Additionally, the defendant will attend fair housing training; implement a reasonable accommodation policy; and comply with notice, monitoring and reporting requirements.
  **
  Enforcing the ADA, Status Report from the Department of Justice, January - March 2 3
  Mancinos Restaurant, Brighton, Michigan -- The U.S. Attorneys Office for the Eastern District of Michigan entered into an agreement with Mancinos Restaurant of Brighton resolving a complaint involving denial of access to a service animal. The complainant, who is a person with a disability who uses a service dog, attempted to attend a social engagement at the restaurant. The owner allegedly refused to permit the complainant to remain in the restaurant because of the presence of her service dog and threatened to call the police if she did not remove the dog from the premises. Mancinos agreed to post a policy welcoming service animals in a prominent place at the restaurant, train its employees on the new policy, and pay the complainant $1 in damages.
  **
  SHONEY'S RESTAURANTS TO LET DINERS WITH DISABILITIES BRING IN
  SERVICE ANIMALS UNDER AN AGREEMENT WITH THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
  #268: 6-26-97 - Shoney's Restaurants to Let Diners with Disabilities Bring in Service Animals under an Agreement with the Justice Department
  **
  An Arizona airport shuttle company will ensure that its services are accessible to travelers with disabilities under an agreement reached today with the Justice Department.
  including maintaining wheelchair accessible vans, and permitting all service dogs on the vans.
  5 1: 11-25-97 - ARIZONA TRANSPORTATION COMPANY WILL MAKE ITS SERVICES ACCESSIBLE TO PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
  **
  SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN
  THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
  AND
  REDHIKA CORPORATION, AS OWNER OF
  COUNTRY INNS AND SUITES HOTEL, FORT WAYNE, INDIANA
  UNDER THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT
  SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND REDHIKA CORPORATION, AS OWNER OF COUNTRY INNS AND SUITES HOTEL, FORT WAYNE, INDIANA
  The complainant a woman who self-describes as a congenital triple amputee with bilateral hip disarticulation and who uses both a service animal and a wheelchair alleged that the night desk clerk of the Hotel told her she could not have an animal stay at the hotel.
  **
  SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT
  BETWEEN
  THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
  AND THE TRAVEL INN
  SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THE TRAVEL INN
  The complainant, who is blind, uses a service animal to assist her. Complainant alleged that when she arrived at the Travel Inn to check in for a room for two nights, August 27 and 28, 2 4, a Travel Inn employee advised her that, in addition to the regular room charges, she would have to pay an extra $1 charge per night because of her service dog in violation of Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), 42 U.S.C. 12181-12189 and its implementing regulation, 28 C.F.R. Part 36.
  **
  ADA Questions and Answers: "Reaching Out"--Lesson One (#13)
  Americans with Disabilities Act Questions and Answers
  Service animals
  Businesses must allow people with disabilities to bring their service animals into all areas of the business where customers are normally allowed to go. Service animals are animals that are individually trained to perform tasks for people with disabilities. Typically, restaurants, stores, and other businesses with a "no pets" policy must make an exception to the policy when a customer has a service animal.
• Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:54:00 GMT(10)
• This thread originated nine months ago. Quit necroposting, already!
• Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:09:00 GMT(11)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by kis2533

  What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Utah
  A lady comes into the restaurant that I manage with a Dog. When ever she is asked about the dog she says it is a "service animal" then describes its duties as visiting hospitals and schools to make sick people feel better. This describes a "therapy dog". I asked her flat out.."Is this a service animal?" she said yes. THen I asked "What tasks does it do for you"?. She would only talk about how it goes to hospitals and stuff.
  This lady is crazy! (Like for Real). Based on the info she gave me, the "therapy" dog has no public access rights. I fear that the dog may also be a Emotional support Animal because it is very "pet like". Perhaps it may be a Psychotic Support Animal for her own lunacy but she may be too embarrassed to tell me that it performs services for her.
  Emotional support animals do not have public access rights (I think) but Psychotic support animals do. (I think) How can I decide if she is legit or not?
  She has threatend me with a 25K fine but I feel she needs to do a better job describing the tasks the dog performs for HER! SHe has never told me that!
  Please help.

  
  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
  Though I may be posting a bit late, I feel compelled to answer this question & address all of the MISinformation in many of the other responses here.
  AS A DISABLED PERSON WITH A SERVICE DOG, I can tell you that there is nothing that makes my blood boil more that either people that take advantage (claiming a non-service animal is a service animal) or misinformation as to what is legal or not.
  First, ALL SERVICE ANIMALS (doesn't necessarily have to be a dog - there are also mini-horses, etc. used - believe it or not! :-) and access to public places is mandated & protected by FEDERAL LAW. States may have some regulation, but FEDERAL LAW OVERRIDES ANY STATE LAW (for those replies that say otherwise).
  A SERVICE ANIMAL DOES NOT NEED TO BE OFFICIALLY LICENSED by any organization to be a legal Service Animal, BUT to be considered a Service Animal (by FEDERAL LAW), it needs to perform AT LEAST 2 tasks for the handler that are of benefit/ provide assistance to THAT handler - PERIOD!
  NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DENY SERVICE/ ACCESS TO SUCH A HANDLER W/ ANIMAL THAT IS IDENTIFIED (either by Service Dog/ Animal identifying collar and/OR cape/vest that states such) AS A SERVICE DOG/ ANIMAL FOR THAT PERSON/ HANDLER that it is with.
  NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO QUESTION THAT PERSON AS TO THEIR DISABILITY OR NEED FOR THE DOG (AGAINST FEDERAL LAW), BUT You may ask if the Service Dog/ Animal is THEIRS (which is based upon the automatic assumption that they do then, have a disability AND as no other person should be in possession of such an animal). THE ONLY OTHER QUESTION YOU MAY ASK (by FEDERAL LAW) is IF IT IS A SERVICE DOG/ ANIMAL - should it not be properly identified via collar/ cape/ vest (this also applies to an answer of ASSISTANCE DOG/ ANIMAL- since this is Federally recognized as being the same as a SERVICE DOG/ANIMAL providing physical assistance for a disabled person). ALSO NOTE: that a SERVICE DOG IN TRAINING is also allowed public access - though the trainer/handler may not actually be disabled, they are obviously in training to provide such service (which is the only way for the animal to gain experience/ training in such settings).
  THE ONLY TIME YOU CAN DENY SERVICE is IF a Service Dog/ Animal is NOT UNDER FULL CONTROL OF THE HANDLER - e.g. barking, creating a threat to another person, etc. = obvious behaviors that can compromise the safety of another person/ customer or blatently disrupts business in a dangerous/ threatening way ONLY.
  IN REGARD TO YOUR QUESTION/ THIS WOMAN (whom I would personally, as a disabled person, give HOLY hell to for her blatent abuse) - She identified this dog as an animal providing service for OTHER PEOPLE in a hospital/ nursing home setting. THIS IS FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED AS A "THERAPY DOG" which IS NOT A SERVICE DOG. The ONLY access a THERAPY dog has is to THOSE SETTINGS ONLY = hospital or nursing home - NOT ALL OTHER PUBLIC ACCESS!
  By your asking this woman if it is HER personal service dog & she replies in any manner that suggests that it only provides services in the hospital (AND SHE THREATENS YOU) - you need to correct her (nicely) as to it NOT being FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED AS A SERVICE DOG, BUT A THERAPY DOG AND THERAPY DOGS ARE NOT LEGALLY ALLOWED ACCESS TO PUBLIC PLACES OTHER THAN JUST THE HOSPITAL AND NURSING HOME ONLY. You can quote the ADA LAW on this one to her as well & hopefully she'll get the hint that you're on to her. By her 2nd reply answer (repeating hospitals/ nursing homes), to me it sounds like she is perfectly aware of the fact and taking advantage.
  If you feel uncomfortable with any of this, make your life easier & just go to the ADA website (ada.gov) and print out the rules to hand to her (if she questions or threatens you again) and the scare the crap out of her by asking for HER NAME/ Number, etc. to REPORT HER FOR FEDERAL FRAUD!
  OR go ahead and print out my reply and hand it to her.
  People like that get me more P.O.'d than people that illegally park in handicapped parking (and especially when there is no other handicap parking available!) SHAME ON YOU LADY, SHAME ON YOU!
  ALSO, NOTE that a Service Dog is NOT A PET but actually considered as medical equipment, much the SAME as a walker/ crutches, etc., as I/ my accountant actually & LEGALLY can and do write him (and all his costs & expenses - food, vet bills, etc.) off on my Federal Tax Return EVERY year.
• Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:06:00 GMT(12)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by JKBee

  DOJ states that a service dog can be allowed to be in the possession of anyone with a relationship to someone with a disability.

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by JKBee

  The DOJ does have a law that does allow for someone either designated by a handicapped person or related to a handicapped person to have the animal legally in their possession. Since I am currently dealing with this, I am not sure of the liability of the VA hospital or the individual involved. I am sure of the DOJ law on this, however.

  Sorry, there is no such law. A service dog is for a disabled individual (which also negates cyjeff's comment about the dog being allowed if ppl from the hospital were with the person). A service dog is only allowed in a public place where pets aren't allowed if they are actively working for their disabled person. Service dogs have NO access rights whatsoever. Only people do, and the ADA grants access to people with disabilities.
  Your son was in the wrong to take your dog into the hospital (or any other place where pets are not allowed). The hospital was correct that the dog is not allowed there unless the dog is accompanying you while it is working for you. Your son has no right to have your service dog with him in public places because he does not have a disability that is mitigated by the tasks your service dog has been trained to do. In his hands, your dog is a pet. In your hands, your task-trained dog is a medical device that you are legally allowed to have with you (as long as your dog behaves and is not a threat to the public) just like a wheelchair or cane for somebody who needs those.
  Your service dog does have the right to be with you in the hospital, as long as you meet the dog's needs (food, toileting outside, etc.) by either doing them yourself, having a family member/friend come do them, or hiring somebody to do them for you. The hospital (or any other public place) has no obligation to provide you with anything in regards to the care of your service dog (although I have heard of some hospital staffers beg to take a patient's dog out for a walk). Many people will have the dog with them in the hospital during the day and have somebody they know take the dog home with them at night while many others have their dog with them all day and night at the hospital while some others will not have their dog in the hospital at all. It depends on your needs (i.e. a seizure alert dog should be in the hospital 24/7 while some other types may not be needed during the stay), your abilities (i.e. if you will be operated on or not able to walk/wheel outside), and your situation (i.e. if you have somebody local to help care for the dog).
  The state you and/or your son are in may have a law granting public access with a service dog in training to dog trainers, but I will assume from what you wrote that your son is not a trainer in any/much sense of the word (professional or owner-trainer), so those laws would likely not apply in your situation.
• Fri, 19 Jun 2009 19:47:00 GMT(13)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by cyjeff

  I would also like to underscore that a service dog (or therapy dog in this instance) is ONLY allowed when that animal accompanies the person to whom that dog provides service.
  It seems that the person in the question takes her dog to the hospital to make people feel better. Great. Very nice.
  But unless those same people accompany her to the restaurant, I don't see a problem with barring that dog from entry.
  Lastly, as of this date, therapy dogs are NOT given the same rights as service animals.

  I would like to comment on this statement. I use a service dog and recently I was expecting to be hospitalized for an indefinite time. My service dog and I have never been apart, and I could not just leave her home alone and uncared for. My son came and got her, forgetting to take her working harness and her vest. He had a doctor's appointment at a VA hospital in WA and was unsure of taking her in with him. DOJ states that a service dog can be allowed to be in the possession of anyone with a relationship to someone with a disability. He was challenged by a desk clerk to show her paperwork, and my son wasn't savvy enough to simply state that she was a service dog and no paperwork nor vest is required for her. It got blown up to where the woman at the desk called for the MPs to come and arrest my son for having a service dog with him that didn't belong to him. Of course, the MPs were smart enough not to respond, but this was enough grounds to allow legal action if my son were desirous of pushing this matter, I think. The DOJ does have a law that does allow for someone either designated by a handicapped person or related to a handicapped person to have the animal legally in their possession. Since I am currently dealing with this, I am not sure of the liability of the VA hospital or the individual involved. I am sure of the DOJ law on this, however.
• Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:30:00 GMT(14)
• I have a service dog and the co op that my mother lives in wrote her a letter saying I can not bring my srrvice dog into the apartment. She wears a vest and has a card declaring her as a service animal. They want me to appear in front of them explaining in writting my disability with a letter from my doctor. They also want to see where my dog was trained and the paper work which makes her a service dog. I have a problem finding justification for allowing the service dog into private housing. Everything I have read refers to public housing and public places. What are my rights with my service dog in my mom's apartment?
• Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:50:00 GMT(15)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by SDUsr

  That is also not true. Individual states may or may not have laws regarding service animals. They can say whatever they want to say, but the federal law supercedes them. So, if a particular type of service animal is not covered under a state's law, that in no way means people who use that type of service animal can be barred from a public place.

  Excellent posts, SDUsr! I have just one clarification. I believe the bolded part is not quite correct. State laws may or may not be more restrictive than the federal law. In those cases, whichever law provides the most protection for the disabled is the one that applies.
• Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:56:00 GMT(16)
• I'm sorry for not being clear.
  Because I believe this lady may be crazy, I fear that she may have a prescription from her doctor for this type of animal to support her emotionally and/or psychologically. If this is true, then it is providing her a service to her.
  My issue is, I cannot get her to tell me that. Therefore I am not sure. Her story just doesn't add up. She insists she is protected by the ADA but she refuses to tell me what services her dog performs for HER. She describes its duties to me as a therapy dog.
• Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:29:00 GMT(17)
• The ADA does not require the disabled person to show ID or certification of DOG or disability.
• Fri, 09 Jan 2009 09:22:00 GMT(18)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by kis2533

  What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Utah
  A lady comes into the restaurant that I manage with a Dog. When ever she is asked about the dog she says it is a "service animal" then describes its duties as visiting hospitals and schools to make sick people feel better. This describes a "therapy dog". I asked her flat out.."Is this a service animal?" she said yes. THen I asked "What tasks does it do for you"?. She would only talk about how it goes to hospitals and stuff.
  This lady is crazy! (Like for Real). Based on the info she gave me, the "therapy" dog has no public access rights. I fear that the dog may also be a Emotional support Animal because it is very "pet like". Perhaps it may be a Psychotic Support Animal for her own lunacy but she may be too embarrassed to tell me that it performs services for her.
  Emotional support animals do not have public access rights (I think) but Psychotic support animals do. (I think) How can I decide if she is legit or not?
  She has threatend me with a 25K fine but I feel she needs to do a better job describing the tasks the dog performs for HER! SHe has never told me that!
  Please help.

  
  By the way, forgot to post this link, here is the Law for UTAH
  Access Laws for Guide Dog Users: U.S.
  "Violators" of the law are subject to :
  Violation: Any person or agent of any person who interferes with the above-enumerated legal rights is guilty of a Class C misdemeanor and punishable accordingly. (Sect. 26-3 -4)
  Where this lady gets the idea of $25K is beyond me. (sounds like she's trying to stir up trouble to "create" a claim if you ask me). The "Fine" is like a "Fine" you'd pay for a Speeding Ticket, etc.
• Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:43:00 GMT(19)
• Welcome to the board!
  Necroposting is posting in old, dead threads Highjacking is using someone else's thread about his problem to ask questions about your own situation.
  On this board, the etiquette is to start your own thread to give a brief, to the point description of your situatin and ask your questions about the law or laws that apply.
  Go ahead and start yours now. You may not get many answers until tomorrow since it is late, so be sure to check back.
• Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:45:00 GMT(20)
• There is most certainly a Federal Law pertaining to Persons with service animals. the Federal law overrides all local, city and state laws concerning service animals.
  There is no requirements to show licensure. However a therapy dog is not a service animal, since it not for the assistance of a person with a disability.
  Refer to the Americans with Disability Act of 199 . You will see that it is a Federal Regulation.
• Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:41:00 GMT(21)
• Necrposting is bad decorum in our forum. If you have a legal question, please start your own thread. If you just feel like venting, please vent somewhere else.
• Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:35:00 GMT(22)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by AdviceDude

  Where this lady gets the idea of $25K is beyond me. (sounds like she's trying to stir up trouble to "create" a claim if you ask me).

  Sadly, these days, that is all too common. There is a group of people in California and another group of people in Florida who go around to businesses just to stir up trouble and make money. Some of them aren't even actually disabled! For instance, I believe at least one of the people in California who goes around with a dog and then sues for denial of access is not disabled and/or the dog is nothing more than a pet.
  Of course, there are legitimate lawsuits against businesses who do not/did not follow the requirements of the ADA.
• Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:44:00 GMT(23)
• I'm scared that it is really a Psychiatric service dog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  I think these kinda animals have public access rights? But doesn't this lady need to tell me what services it provides? What if she doesn't? Can I refuse her entrance?
  (This lady squats at my establishment for several hours a day)
• Sun, 07 Dec 2008 20:34:00 GMT(24)
• I'm not sure you know too much about this topic Jeff.
• Tue, 09 Dec 2008 09:57:00 GMT(25)
• Okay... Maybe if I print it again...
  from ADA.gov
  

  Quote:

  Q: What is a service animal?
  A: The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. If they meet this definition, animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local government.
  Service animals perform some of the functions and tasks that the individual with a disability cannot perform for him or herself. "Seeing eye dogs" are one type of service animal, used by some individuals who are blind. This is the type of service animal with which most people are familiar. But there are service animals that assist persons with other kinds of disabilities in their day-to-day activities. Some examples include:
  _____Alerting persons with hearing impairments to sounds.
  _____ Pulling wheelchairs or carrying and picking up things for persons with mobility impairments.
  _____Assisting persons with mobility impairments with balance.

  A service dog must be accompanied by the person being serviced by that animal. I have sight. Therefore, I cannot bring my mother's seeing eye dog into a restaurant. She can, I cannot.
  A service dog does not have carte blanche. The animal MUST be there with the person requiring his/her services.
  I cannot find, despite scouring the ADA site, any listing of a therapy dog as a service dog.
  I have found this definition over and over, however...
  http://www.ada.gov/pcatoolkit/chap7emergencymgmt.pdf
  

  Quote:

  Only two questions maybe asked to determine if an animal is a service animal. (1) Is this animal a service animal because of a disability? and (2) What tasks or work has this animal been trained to perform?

  That is from the ADA's pamphlet on emergency preparedness for natural disasters when housing will be provided.
  Therapy animals, as of now, are not identified as service animals. They may be in the future, but not now.
• Wed, 10 Dec 2008 03:00:00 GMT(26)
• Hi, I found this thread via a Google Alert (e-mail for the search term "service dog") and would love to help you out! I'm disabled and have a service dog, so I know the laws well.
  You are correct that therapy dogs are not service dogs. You are correct that therapy dogs do not have any type of legal public access. They are pets through and through. The "therapy dog" designation is just so hospitals and such know that the dog has been trained to meet certain requirements before they choose to invite the dog into the building. The therapy dog does not otherwise have access to the building; they must be invited.
  You are also correct that emotional support dogs are not service dogs. You are correct that emotional support dogs do not have any type of legal public access. They are pets that a doctor has prescribed for a person who has a mental disability. The pet helps the person emotionally by its presence, being cared for, cuddling, etc. - by just being a dog. It is not trained to help the person in any way.
  There are service dogs for people with mental disabilities - these are called psychiatric service dogs, not psychotic service dogs. These dogs are trained to do tasks that mitigate the person's actual mental disability. The problem is, a lot of people try to cheat the system by saying their mental conditon is a disability when it isn't and/or by saying their dog is a psychiatric service dog for them when the dog does not do any tasks or the things the dogs have been trained to do don't mitigate the person's disability (i.e. the dog can retrieve items, but the person does not have any difficulty getting items themselves; the dog carries medications in a pack on its back, but the person is able to carry medications in their pocket, purse, or other bag).
  A service dog is a dog that has been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability. A disability is a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities (examples of which are seeing, hearing, walking, caring for self, etc.).
  Businesses are allowed to ask three questions:
  1. Are you disabled? (Yes or no answer; you cannot ask what their particular disability is.)
  2. Is this your service animal?
  3. What tasks has your service animal been trained to do that mitigate your disability? (The person must name at least one trained task their dog does that mitigates their disability.)
  A business cannot demand to see certification, ID, paperwork, prescription, etc.
  Even though most people say "service dog/animal access", it is actually the person who has access, not the dog. The person is able to bring the service dog with them under the law because the service dog is legally a medical device (like a wheelchair or cane), not a pet. The law is a person cannot be denied access because of their disability. If somebody denies access to a person because they use a service animal (or because they use a wheelchair or because they use a cane), they are denying a person access because of their disability and that is against the law.
  There is no set $25K fine for denying a disabled person access, so it sounds like this lady is money-hungry or just trying to scare you into letting her bring her pet with her. The ADA is a civil rights law, not a criminal law; the point of a lawsuit is access, not money, but not everybody realizes that. Nor do they realize all the proof they will need for a lawsuit (proof they are disabled, proof the dog is trained to do tasks that directly mitigate their disability, and proof they were excluded because of their disability and not for another reason such as their attitude or smell/uncleanliness/etc.).
  Besides asking the questions, you can observe the animals' behavior. If the animal is at the person's side (or slightly ahead, for animals that guide or pull for tasks) except when doing a task (such as retrieving an item), the animal is obedient, the animal is under control, and the animal otherwise acts "invisible", there is a good chance it is a service animal. If the animal is misbehaving, breaking items, causing accidents, barking, or otherwise being a nuisance, it is likely to be a pet. Even if a real service animal is disruptive (such as barks repeatedly during a movie, breaks an item, or otherwise is not under control), you can legally exclude them.
  As for your particular situation, under the federal laws, you should exclude this lady's dog from your business. A therapy dog has no place or legal standing in your business, nor does an emotional support dog. A service dog must have been trained to do tasks that mitigate the person's disability, which the lady is not answering that her dog does any such thing, so she cannot bring her dog in.
  Before you do anything, however, DO check your state's laws; I have heard rumors that Utah wanted to pass a law giving emotional support animals access to public places. I don't know if that law was ever passed or what the specifics of it are. You should be able to find the law on your state's Web site or at your library. (For all Utah businesses' sakes, I hope the law was not passed!)
  I hope this helps!
• Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:08:00 GMT(27)
• Excuse me here. You are showing how uninformed you are. I suggest you do some research before sounding so informed.
  1.There is definitely Federal regulations regarding service animals. Check out the "Delta Society", and Americans with Disability Act, 199 .
  2. The federal regulations override any city, county or state law concerning service animals.
  3. No documentation is required. No training certification is required.
  4. Businesses can only ask what duties the dog performs.They can not ask what disability the person has.
• Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:10:00 GMT(28)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by SDUsr

  Sorry, there is no such law. A service dog is for a disabled individual (which also negates cyjeff's comment about the dog being allowed if ppl from the hospital were with the person). A service dog is only allowed in a public place where pets aren't allowed if they are actively working for their disabled person. Service dogs have NO access rights whatsoever. Only people do, and the ADA grants access to people with disabilities.
  Your son was in the wrong to take your dog into the hospital (or any other place where pets are not allowed). The hospital was correct that the dog is not allowed there unless the dog is accompanying you while it is working for you. Your son has no right to have your service dog with him in public places because he does not have a disability that is mitigated by the tasks your service dog has been trained to do. In his hands, your dog is a pet. In your hands, your task-trained dog is a medical device that you are legally allowed to have with you (as long as your dog behaves and is not a threat to the public) just like a wheelchair or cane for somebody who needs those.
  Your service dog does have the right to be with you in the hospital, as long as you meet the dog's needs (food, toileting outside, etc.) by either doing them yourself, having a family member/friend come do them, or hiring somebody to do them for you. The hospital (or any other public place) has no obligation to provide you with anything in regards to the care of your service dog (although I have heard of some hospital staffers beg to take a patient's dog out for a walk). Many people will have the dog with them in the hospital during the day and have somebody they know take the dog home with them at night while many others have their dog with them all day and night at the hospital while some others will not have their dog in the hospital at all. It depends on your needs (i.e. a seizure alert dog should be in the hospital 24/7 while some other types may not be needed during the stay), your abilities (i.e. if you will be operated on or not able to walk/wheel outside), and your situation (i.e. if you have somebody local to help care for the dog).
  The state you and/or your son are in may have a law granting public access with a service dog in training to dog trainers, but I will assume from what you wrote that your son is not a trainer in any/much sense of the word (professional or owner-trainer), so those laws would likely not apply in your situation.

  Excuse me, but DOJ states: "to be protected by ADA, one must have a disability or have a relationship or association with an individual" to have possession of a service animal.
• Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:50:00 GMT(29)
• This lady is not the one receiving the dog's services.
  If she wants to bring the dog into your restaurant, she can provide you with the documentation from the state that identifies her animal as a service dog.
• Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:50:00 GMT(30)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by cyjeff

  I would also like to underscore that a service dog (or therapy dog in this instance) is ONLY allowed when that animal accompanies the person to whom that dog provides service.
  It seems that the person in the question takes her dog to the hospital to make people feel better. Great. Very nice.
  But unless those same people accompany her to the restaurant, I don't see a problem with barring that dog from entry.
  Lastly, as of this date, therapy dogs are NOT given the same rights as service animals.

  A dog who is taken to hospitals to help others is a therapy dog, not a service dog, so even if the people from the hospital were with the dog owner in the restaurant (or other public place), the dog would not be allowed.
  Otherwise, yes, real service dogs are only allowed in public places when they are working for the disabled individual they were trained for.
  No dog has any access rights. Access rights are for the human handler. The disabled human has the right to enter and use public places just as non-disabled people do. This right is given regardless of the tools the person uses to get around and use said public places - tools including wheelchairs and service dogs. The two-step requirement for access with a service dog under the ADA is that the person is disabled (has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities*) and the dog is a trained service dog (has been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of the disabled individual [meaning they do tasks that mitigate the person's disability - a dog that helps with balance is not a service dog for somebody who doesn't have a balance disability] and has been trained in public access [trained well enough so they don't get legally kicked out by disrupting the business]).
  *(Note: The definition of disability also includes people who are regarded as having such an impairment and people who used to have such an impairment, but such people are not eligible for using a service animal because there are no tasks a service animal can be trained to do for them since they do not have an impairment that can be mitigated. That is why you generally do not see these two parts of the definition talked about in regards to access with service animals.)
• Wed, 10 Dec 2008 03:14:00 GMT(31)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by Otis2 8

  1. There is no Federal law regarding service animals

  That is completely not true! The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) specifically covers service animals: Department of Justice ADA Title III Regulation 28 CFR Part 36
  

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by Otis2 8

  2. Each individual state is required to list what they will accept as a service dog and an assistant dog.

  That is also not true. Individual states may or may not have laws regarding service animals. They can say whatever they want to say, but the federal law supercedes them. So, if a particular type of service animal is not covered under a state's law, that in no way means people who use that type of service animal can be barred from a public place.
  In some states, the state law gives more access or laws such as what happens if somebody hurts or kills a person's service animal. (In order for those laws to be used, the person must fit under the state's law, of course.)
  

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by Otis2 8

  3. In the state of Washington a business owner is only allowed to ask if the dog is a service animal. They are not allowed to ask what type of disability a person has nor are they allowed to ask what type of "support" a service dog offers to the person.

  Businesses in all states may ask if the person is disabled, if the animal is a service animal, and what tasks the animal has been trained to do that mitigate the person's disability. They cannot ask what the person's diagnosis is, of course.
  

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by Otis2 8

  4. It is required that each person carries a little id card for the dog which basically states that the company that trained the dog has the means to do the training and that it is all legal with the state.

  There is no such requirement under the federal law, therefore you cannot demand any sort of ID, paperwork, or certification from any service animal team. While some state laws may state an ID requirement, the federal law supercedes the state law, so all disabled persons with service animals under the federal law do not need to show such proof for access. If the state law offers any advantages the federal law does not offer, the person must follow state law for such advantage, in which case an ID may be required if that is what the state law requires - but access is not such an advantage, therefore asking for ID or any other paperwork is illegal.
  

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by Otis2 8

  Check your state laws before taking your animal into public and claiming it is a service animal. It is legal for a "restaurant" to ask you to leave if you don't have the "trained card" but they can not ask you to leave because they are a service animal or a "support animal".

  It is not legal for a restaurant (or any other public place covered under the ADA) to bar a disabled person and their well-trained service animal for any reason. The business cannot ask for a "trained card" or any other sort of ID/certification.
  Also, allergies and fear of dogs are not valid excuses to bar a service animal. Dog allergies almost never reach the status of being a disability, but even if the person's allergies are disabling, the business must give access to both the disabled person with the service animal and the disabled allergic person. The business can do things like seat the parties on two different sides of the room/in different rooms, help keep the parties away from each other, etc. to lessen the effect of the allergies while still giving both people access to public areas.
• Sun, 21 Jun 2009 08:13:00 GMT(32)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by SDUsr

  Sorry, there is no such law. A service dog is for a disabled individual (which also negates cyjeff's comment about the dog being allowed if ppl from the hospital were with the person). A service dog is only allowed in a public place where pets aren't allowed if they are actively working for their disabled person.

  Which is what I was trying to say... but poorly.
• Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:29:00 GMT(33)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by AdviceDude

  Another note--Organizations that Provide Service Dogs to recipients do so FREE OF CHARGE to the Recipient---including all vet bills for the animal for it's life---up to and including food (based on the monetary needs of the recipient).
  It costs approximately $2 , -$55, to train ONE DOG to be a Service or Guide Dog.
  (depending on what "actions" the dog is trained to perform).
  Organizations that provide these dogs do so at a very large expense to the organization.
  Service Dogs/Guide Dogs go through RIGOROUS training before they are allowed with a recipient---Dogs do often "fail" the requirements necessary to become a Service Animal, therefore know that a Service Animal you encounter is "Special" in that it has passed MANY MANY levels of "training" to be "Certified" as a Service/Guide Dog.VetDogs - Veteran's K-9 Corps
  Southeastern Guidedogs Inc - Paws for Patriots

  This is not accurate. There are programs such as the Inmate Training Program here in Colorado that require a payment as high as $2,5 . They do not provided a lifetime of vet service. Also, a disabled person can train their own dog.
  It is true that dogs that are trained by those wonderful programs that are out there often do fail.
  That said, as a disabled person who uses a service animal it is interesting to note that the more liberal states are often the hardest to have access within. I rarely have an issue in Colorado, Texas, or Oklahoma. However, in Ca I often have an issue take for insistence what happened to us on March 28, 2 9 in the Togo's and Baskin Robbins combined location at
  1312 E ONTARIO AVE
  CORONA, CA 92881 USA
  That makes this funny is that we had no issue getting into SeaWorld or Disney. However, when we went to the Togo's Eatery we had major issues. We had broken our dogs harness on the trip and the backup vest we usually carry was forgotten on the trip. Again, despite this we had no issue at Disney or most other places. We took pains to explain to people before we entered a business by having my wife go ahead and explain the situation. We a few times where asked if we had the ID that it seems Ca. issues. However, since we do not live in the state we did not have this ID.
  However, that all went south when we went into the Togo/Baskin Robins in Corona, Ca. My wife went in ahead with my Dad, Mom, brother, niece, and our two kids and they explained the situation. To be fair we are a little unique in that my current fully grown service dog is being retired early due to a car accident that caused her to lose her front teeth making it impossible to assist me with picking things up, but she can still assist me when I fall, carries the controller for my spinal implant, assist me up stairs, and provide some other specific jobs. Since I have a cane on my right side and difficulty using my left side she is trained to work off leash and has not broken from me whist working anytime in the last 6 years. She has ignored rabbits, children, birds, and even gunfire. She always stays with me. In fact, I use her to keep my kids with me. We have been known to put harness on our kids and attach them to the dog. People would think it was cute that our kids could walk the dog, but in fact....she was walking the kids and keeping them with me as they can out run me. She goes under the table, and does most of her job without me needing to even signal her. She just knows her job. That dog "Katherine the Great" or "Kat" as we call her. (Yes we spell it wrong on purpose) She had her vest, ID, and is clearly a service animal. However, we also have her replacement who is training and his name is Ivan
  Ivan does perform some tasks such as retrieving items I drop, opening doors, and several other tasks that require him to use his mouth. So he IS a service dog. However, he is only 18 months old and is not done growing so he cannot yet train to take over the mobility part of the job. He needs to be fully grown (2 years old) for him to even begin training for this task. This was the dog that broke his harness. This was the dog that we felt compelled to inform the business of before we entered as he did not have his vest.
  After my wife explained the situation to the manager we came into the store. We ordered our food, and I need to say that the #25 is one of my favorite foods since childhood. In fact, it is an essential part of any visit to Ca. for our family. So I ordered my BBQ and sat down to enjoy a true pleasure. However, my drink was wrong as it was supposed to be a mint chocolate shake and it had no mint. So I went back to the counter to get that fixed. At no time did my dogs cause any disturbance. They sat under the table or directly beside me as there was not sufficient room under the table for both. They stayed at my side, and obeyed my hand commands without me having to even look at them. Kat was off leash as that is how she is trained to work. Ivan was on a short handled leash that we have fashion on the fly as we could not find that wrapped around my waist as my normal leash is attached to the harness. As Ivan does break and can get distracted we were using a pinch collar, but he still had his normal collar with his ID.
  So....I got to the counter and the manger begins to correct my order. However, she also informs me that they have had complaints about the dogs and that I needed to leave, but my family could stay an finish their meal without me. I explained they where service dogs. She again told me I would have to leave as I did not have the California issued ID. I begin to politely explain that this was not required under federal law, but was interrupted by someone from the only other party eating in the restaurant. It turned out they where the people who complained and the manager had chosen to ask me to leave right in front of them.
  This person told me that she did not believe me since the dog in question did not have a vest. We quickly established that they did not question Kat but they did not believe me. The only adult man in the group called me an idiot and told me it did not matter that I was from Colorado, "I was in California now and no dogs are allowed in eating establishments." this continued for several minutes with me being harassed verbally abused and insulted in front of my family. When another customer entered the store the situation escalated. All of this was happening across the counter from the manager, and she never took any action to assist me. She allowed that this harassment and bullying to continue. I kept trying to explain ADA is a federal law, but the party shouted me down. Finally the correct shake was ready, and I picked it up, and at that point I was again asked to leave by the manger. This as well was done in front of the other party, and this added fuel to the fire resulting in an escalation on the part of the offending party.
  The man than demanded to know if I was disabled and proof of my disability. I was embarrassed and felt cornered so I tried to explain that I have a low spin and a closed head injury. They demeaned proof of this so I turned around and lifted my shirt to show them my scar. I was than ridiculed for my scar. I was informed that they had scars as well, but those did not make them disabled. I was repeatedly called an idiot despite them having been told that I have a closed head injury. I was told that disabled people are not allowed to train service animals, by law service animals have to have packs, service animals have to have a license from the state they are in, that any certificate from another state could not be used in California, "You are not disabled", "You need to leave now," and that "service dogs do not use pinch collars even in training."
  Eventually I went back to my seat, but on my way back I was still harassed. In fact, ever after I sat down they yelled to the back of the store and made comments like, "No dogs allowed in eating establishment," idiot, there is no way that dog is in training, and it is supposedly in training according to that guy the lair. At no time did the store do anything to stop this harassment. In fact, it seems that at least one of the members of the party where family members of an employee.
  I called the corporate headquarters and left a message with a description of the incident and the address of the store as it was on a Sunday and they were closed. I got a call back late Monday asking me to return call back. I did call back on Tuesday, and was told they had lost the store address. I explained what had happened, and was told "we cannot be responsible for how other customers behave in our stores." I was also asked, "Why do think this our responsibility?" I had to repeatedly explain that I was asked to leave by the manger in front of the party that harassed me. However, the corporate headquarters kept suggesting that they had no responsibility in this matter. They finally said that since I did not have the address they could not do anything. This despite that I had the city and two cross streets, and that there is only 2 Togo's in the city in question. I have since called back to give them the address, but have been brushed off.
  Why do I share this? Honestly, I share it partially to vent. Also, because every time someone "games" the system it makes it harder for people like me to have access when we are using our service animals.
• Tue, 09 Dec 2008 09:14:00 GMT(34)
• The ADA protects disabled people. She claims the dog services others (like in hospitals) and therefore is a service dog. If the dog does not perform a specific task for HER then the dog is not an accommodation for a disability she may have and therefore the ADA would not apply. Right?
• Wed, 10 Dec 2008 02:51:00 GMT(35)
• There is a lot of questions regarding "service animals" versus "assistant dogs"
  1. There is no Federal law regarding service animals
  2. Each individual state is required to list what they will accept as a service dog and an assistant dog.
  3. In the state of Washington a business owner is only allowed to ask if the dog is a service animal. They are not allowed to ask what type of disability a person has nor are they allowed to ask what type of "support" a service dog offers to the person.
  4. It is required that each person carries a little id card for the dog which basically states that the company that trained the dog has the means to do the training and that it is all legal with the state.
  Check your state laws before taking your animal into public and claiming it is a service animal. It is legal for a "restaurant" to ask you to leave if you don't have the "trained card" but they can not ask you to leave because they are a service animal or a "support animal".
• Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:18:00 GMT(36)
• Second opinion?
• Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:40:00 GMT(37)
• A service animal would be a seeing eye dog... an animal the person has to use to function.
  A dog that visits hospitals is nice, but certainly not applicable.
• Fri, 09 Jan 2009 09:54:00 GMT(38)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by Otis2 8

  There is a lot of questions regarding "service animals" versus "assistant dogs"
  1. There is no Federal law regarding service animals
  2. Each individual state is required to list what they will accept as a service dog and an assistant dog.
  3. In the state of Washington a business owner is only allowed to ask if the dog is a service animal. They are not allowed to ask what type of disability a person has nor are they allowed to ask what type of "support" a service dog offers to the person.
  4. It is required that each person carries a little id card for the dog which basically states that the company that trained the dog has the means to do the training and that it is all legal with the state.
  Check your state laws before taking your animal into public and claiming it is a service animal. It is legal for a "restaurant" to ask you to leave if you don't have the "trained card" but they can not ask you to leave because they are a service animal or a "support animal".

  Actually, I need to correct/clarify some of your statements that are INCORRECT:
  1. There is no Federal law regarding service animals--INCORRECT
  The ADA SPECIFICALLY lays out "Service Dog" access rights:
  Commonly Asked Questions About Service Animals in Places of Business
  A: The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. If they meet this definition, animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local government.
  Service animals perform some of the functions and tasks that the individual with a disability cannot perform for him or herself. Guide dogs are one type of service animal, used by some individuals who are blind. This is the type of service animal with which most people are familiar. But there are service animals that assist persons with other kinds of disabilities in their day-to-day activities. Some examples include:
  _ Alerting persons with hearing impairments to sounds.
  _ Pulling wheelchairs or carrying and picking up things for persons with mobility impairments.
  _ Assisting persons with mobility impairments with balance.
  A service animal is not a pet.
  **
  2. Each individual state is required to list what they will accept as a service dog and an assistant dog.--INCORRECT!
  The ADA (A FEDERAL LAW)--Defines what a "Service" Dog is.
  States can modify the "punishment" regarding ADA claims, however States are NOT the Branch of Government defining what a "Service Dog" is--that is a FEDERAL LAW!
  **
  4. It is required that each person carries a little id card for the dog which basically states that the company that trained the dog has the means to do the training and that it is all legal with the state. --PARTIALLY TRUE
  The ADA/Federal Law did not specify how individuals were to "prove" the dog was a service Animal--so many states came up with their own rules. *SOME* states require this, OTHERS do not.
  However as a BUSINESS OWNER--I would always error on the side of "belief" vs. "disbelief".
  *
  The ONE THING I want to point out to Business Owners is that "Service Animals" will become more and more common. "Most" Organizations that are in the business of training and donating a service animal to a recipient, will provide approximately 5 -1 dogs to needy recipients per year. So, get use to seeing "more" of them.
  Another note--Organizations that Provide Service Dogs to recipients do so FREE OF CHARGE to the Recipient---including all vet bills for the animal for it's life---up to and including food (based on the monetary needs of the recipient).
  It costs approximately $2 , -$55, to train ONE DOG to be a Service or Guide Dog.
  (depending on what "actions" the dog is trained to perform).
  Organizations that provide these dogs do so at a very large expense to the organization.
  Service Dogs/Guide Dogs go through RIGOROUS training before they are allowed with a recipient---Dogs do often "fail" the requirements necessary to become a Service Animal, therefore know that a Service Animal you encounter is "Special" in that it has passed MANY MANY levels of "training" to be "Certified" as a Service/Guide Dog.
  Therefore, as a Business Owner--PLEASE REST ASSURED a Service Animal or Guide Dog is NOTHING to be worried about in your place of business. TRUST ME a Restaurateur has more to worry about with the Belligerent Drunk at the Bar, than they do with a Service Animal.
  Finally, it is becoming more an more common to supply "Service Dogs" to War Veterans.
  Right now, dogs are being used in "War" settings as "Therapy" dogs for Veterans suffering from PTSD. A "Therapy" dog is DIFFERENT than a "SERVICE DOG"---as a "THERAPY DOG" is trained to provide "comfort/support" to it's recipient. (and as of this writing is NOT covered under the ADA).
  HOWEVER, I would not be surprised to see laws passed which allow War Veterans (despite what their "disability" is)---equal access under the ADA--and the expansion of the definition of what a "Service" dog is.
  However, ANY BUSINESS OWNER should REST ASSURED a "Service Dog" under goes AT MINIMUM 2-years of training before it's provided to a recipient. You can rest assured the dog is WELL PREPARED for the Work it is required to perform and will NOT disrupt your place of business.
  Here are some links regarding training dogs for War Veterans
  VetDogs - Veteran's K-9 Corps
  Southeastern Guidedogs Inc - Paws for Patriots
• Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:21:00 GMT(39)
• Hey Advicedude...what the heck is HIPPA? I think you mean HIPAA, but I guess you could be talking about some kind of HIPPO.
  And OP is describing a therapy dog and not a service dog. All of your citations refer to service dogs.
• Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:30:00 GMT(40)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by AdviceDude

  (BY THE WAY--"disruptive" does NOT mean that someone near the lady decides to complain because they are "afraid" or "allergic" to dogs---in that case, you have to make accommodations to the "Complaining Party"---and NOT ask the lady with the dog to move. The lady with the dog has 1 % "equal" rights to sit anywhere in the establishment anyone else would sit. Therefore the "complainant" would need to be moved--not the lady with the dog.

  This is almost correct.
  First, the business does not have to accommodate the complaining customer. It would, of course, be in their best financial interest to do so, if they can, but they should explain to the customer that disabled people have just as much right to be in public places as the complaining person does. If there is an empty table away from the disabled person's table, they could choose to offer the complaining party to move there. If the complaining party refuses, that is their own problem.
  While most allergies, especially dog allergies, are not severe and do not fall under the law as being a disability, some people do indeed have disabling allergies. In the case of a patron telling you that they have a disabling allergic reaction to dogs (i.e. they stop breathing and need medical treatment such as using an Epi-Pen, NOT that they get the sniffles being around dogs or that they get a rash when they touch a dog/a dog licks them), you are required to accommodate both disabled patrons (the one with the service dog and the one with allergies).
  The most common accommodation would be to seat the two persons on opposite sides of the restaurant from each other (and not in the path of the only access point to the restroom, if possible). In most circumstances, you cannot legally seat a disabled person in a different spot from other patrons - you must treat them like any other patron - but in this case, it would be reasonable for you to seat either disabled person in a different section if doing so will allow them both to eat at your restaurant.
  Note that this is a very rare case - disabling dog allergies are very rare and it would be even rarer for you to have both a person with a disabling dog allergy and a person with a service dog eating at your restaurant at the same time. Almost all people who say they are allergic to dogs when a service dog enters the building are either mildly to moderately allergic (not covered under the ADA) or are lying because they don't like dogs or don't want to be near a dog at the moment or are scared of dogs. Allergies (except for disabling ones) and fear of dogs are not legal reasons to exclude a disabled person with a service dog from a business.
• Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:29:00 GMT(41)
• JKBee
  I'll second what Wirelessany1 said back in April to youthguy...
  

  Quote:

  "Necrposting is bad decorum in our forum. If you have a legal question, please start your own thread. If you just feel like venting, please vent somewhere else."

• Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:36:00 GMT(42)
• lleyoop, necroposting is bad decorum. Please start your own thread to ask your legal question, this one is old
• Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:54:00 GMT(43)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by Otis2 8

  There is a lot of questions regarding "service animals" versus "assistant dogs"
  1. There is no Federal law regarding service animals
  2. Each individual state is required to list what they will accept as a service dog and an assistant dog.
  3. In the state of Washington a business owner is only allowed to ask if the dog is a service animal. They are not allowed to ask what type of disability a person has nor are they allowed to ask what type of "support" a service dog offers to the person.
  4. It is required that each person carries a little id card for the dog which basically states that the company that trained the dog has the means to do the training and that it is all legal with the state.
  Check your state laws before taking your animal into public and claiming it is a service animal. It is legal for a "restaurant" to ask you to leave if you don't have the "trained card" but they can not ask you to leave because they are a service animal or a "support animal".

  Just to reiterate what SDUsr said...
  EVERYTHING in Otis' post in WRONG!
• Mon, 08 Dec 2008 20:00:00 GMT(44)
• And therapy dogs ARE NOT provided the same status as service dogs.
  A therapy dog is NOT a service dog under ADA.
  This assumes, of course, that the lady's condition qualifies under ADA.
  Commonly Asked Questions About Service Animals in Places of Business
  

  Quote:

  . Q: What is a service animal?
  The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an indivA:idual with a disability. If they meet this definition, animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local government.

  http://www.ada.gov/svcabrpt.pdf
  The newest ADA poster.
  Notice that a service animal performs tasks for the person. A therapy animal... I.E. one that calms a person just by his/her presence... is NOT, repeat NOT, a service dog.
  Therefore, you CAN ask what tasks the dog performs for the person.
• Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:13:00 GMT(45)
• If she wants to bring the dog into your restaurant, she can provide you with the documentation from the state that identifies her animal as a service dog.
• Fri, 09 Jan 2009 09:01:00 GMT(46)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by kis2533

  I'm sorry for not being clear.
  Because I believe this lady may be crazy, I fear that she may have a prescription from her doctor for this type of animal to support her emotionally and/or psychologically. If this is true, then it is providing her a service to her.
  My issue is, I cannot get her to tell me that. Therefore I am not sure. Her story just doesn't add up. She insists she is protected by the ADA but she refuses to tell me what services her dog performs for HER. She describes its duties to me as a therapy dog.

  Open Disclaimer--I work in the "Service Dog/Guide Dog" Industry as a Volunteer, so I have experience in issues like yours, here is my layman advice--I'm not a lawyer.
  First things first, I appreciate your concern, however this lady DOES NOT have to describe to you "why" she needs a service animal. That is PRIVATE Medical information.
  For example, if you had a "child" that is over the age of 18-years old (say 19)--UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES will the Hospital release medical information to you (unless, and until) your child signed a "Release" document. This information is protected under
  HIPPA. (that is how "strict" HIPPA rules are).
  The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act
  http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacysummary.pdf
  If you want to read more on "HIPPA" the link above will give you guidance.
  Therefore, if I were you--I would NOT "demand" to know her Medical Condition.
  This will get you in MUCH MUCH more Trouble than an ADA claim could.
  So, please take the advice and stop asking her to "explain" her need for a dog.
  TRUST ME on this one. I was in the Hospital in 2 7 and the Dr.s would release NOTHING to my family until I signed paper work they had the right to know (and that's FAMILY!).
  2nd-IF the dog is a a dog covered under the ADA--the lady should have
  1st-the appropriate "Jacket" the dog will wear. (Describing it as a service animal).
  It will be CLEAR the dog is a "working dog".
  2nd -In addition, based on what state you are in, she will have a "License" that she carries indicating her need for the dog. (I use the word "license" loosely)--It's nothing more than a laminated "card" with her name/issue date/and that the dog is Indeed a Service Animal.
  She should have "Something"--she can show you--most likely from the Organization that issued the service animal to her.
  --Clarification--SDusr and other comments are correct. Federal Law Trumps State Law--and unless the location is unique to the state that requires "proof", she does not "HAVE" to show ID---however at least the Organization I volunteer for, they provide "ID's" for both Trainer Volunteers and Recipients.
  Those are BIG red flags if she is unable to produce that kind of "normal" information.
  If you are "convinced" it's not a working dog---things you can look for are how the dog behaves--a "working dog"--should ALWAYS, 1 % of the time "behave".
  (almost be "invisible").
  Also--a "working dog" is trained to sit UNDER the table while it's owner is eating
  (Provided there is enough space--if not--the dog is trained to sit directly NEXT to the person on the floor).
  The dog should not easily be "distracted"--nor should it EVER! Bark or "disturb" other patrons (this includes if the dog were to try to walk to their table and sniff their food, etc. etc).
  PLEASE READ THE ADA LINK--because HOWEVER---if it is a "Real" working dog--and it barks or "disrupts" business in any fashion---YOU DO HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT to ask her to remove the dog from the premises--HOWEVER, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT---TO BAN HER from the Premises---so for example, if you ask her to take her dog out because it disrupted patrons---you MUST ALLOW HER to finish her meal,etc.
  3rd--I want EVERYONE to know what the laws are regarding ADA--and Dogs.
  Check this link out:
  Commonly Asked Questions About Service Animals in Places of Business
  The 2nd Question Describes "What is a Service Animal" (that is NOT an all inclusive list) for example if she suffers from Seizures, Narcolepsy or other condition that is not "apparent" by looking at her---she IS covered under the ADA.
  Finally---Just be VERY CAREFUL how you treat her. If she is covered, you don't want the government coming down on you for an ADA claim or a HIPPA claim.
  P.S.--By the way, as a "Trainer"---I have the same "legal entry rights" as a person covered under teh ADA (I am not disabled).
  I am taught that if I'm ever denied entrance to a place of business, I "POLITELY" remind the Manager of the ADA laws--I give them a copy of it and I leave. We are taught NEVER to "argue" with the establishment. The Senior Management of our organization will bring it up with the establishment if necessary.
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