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MOS change or discharge (Government & Administrative Law)

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• Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:07:00 GMT(1)
• Thats unheard of!
  Got a question if he is becoming UNSTABLE WHY IS HE IN WANTING TO GO INTO THE NUKE PROGRAM?
  I certainly can see why he was denied it if he is not mentally fit. Now I know if you can prove the recruiter lied, basically a he said she said spat, there might be some grounds for a complaint. But i have never met a recruiter who would openly admit he lied.
• Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:26:00 GMT(2)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by DRTDEVL

  I am still waiting to find out what MOS was actually in his contract...
  Dollars to donuts he was undesignated.

  Wow, at least with the Army you know your basic skill is Grunt, anything over that is a bonus. And as far as i know the Army tells you your job when you come in henceforth the one station training that was introduced. Except for a few specialties everything is done on one post.
  I guess that is the price you pay for the cool hat, and the awsome bell bottom dungaroos!
• Sat, 15 Dec 2007 05:17:00 GMT(3)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by morbidelf

  he has government clearance already before he joined because he worked for the state

  Having clearance for state employment does not mean he would be granted the type of security clearance necessary for Navy training he wanted.
  

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by morbidelf

  that is why they wanted him for the nuke program. and he has his a BS in criminology (spelling?) and scored really high. so i am not entirely sure what the recuriter had up his butt.... but he got screwed.

  No, he should have insisted that the option he was enlisting for WAS IN THE CONTRACT! Having a college degree is not a guarantee of high intelligence.
• Fri, 23 Nov 2007 03:56:00 GMT(4)
• (sorry, cut off too soon)
  To continue my previous post, the problem for most people who are defrauded by recruiters is twofold. First, you usually need some kind of evidence beyond your own self-serving testimony. In cases that have been won this has been provided by a witness (another person who was present when the recruiter lied) or recordings. I also recall a case where the Navy's own investigation and punishment of the recruiter was drawn out in discovery. The second problem, you have to find a lawyer and file a suit in federal court. The military will generally not discharge you until the court orders it. Most people enlisting in the military probably can't come up with the retainer for such a suit even if they can find a lawyer who will take the case.
  One of the first lessons of contract law: You can write whatever you like in a contract. That doesn't mean a court will enforce it. Indeed, many alleged contracts are lies designed to make you think you shouldn't even go to a lawyer. "I signed it...I guess I'm screwed."
• Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:21:00 GMT(5)
• Do you know if the "MOS" he was told he would get is in his [Enlistment Contract]?
  If so, he has teeth, and if not, then at the top of our Forum is a Sticky. Click on
  it, then scroll up it, and you will find a wealth of information.
  FYI: The Nuke Program is very selective, and requires a very high level of intelligence,
  as well as a very high level security clearance!
• Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:19:00 GMT(6)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by SHORTY LONG

  FYI: The Nuke Program is very selective, and requires a very high level of intelligence,
  as well as a very high level security clearance!

  
  he has government clearance already before he joined because he worked for the state, that is why they wanted him for the nuke program. and he has his a BS in criminology (spelling?) and scored really high. so i am not entirely sure what the recuriter had up his butt.... but he got screwed.
• Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:39:00 GMT(7)
• He believed a verbal offer from a recruiter...and is suprised it didn't pan out? He should have gotten the MOS he wanted...or not signed the contract.
• Fri, 23 Nov 2007 06:14:00 GMT(8)
• Which is why he is going to lose in court. Recruiters are usually pretty smart about not having their shady promises documented....they violate service policy and will have career consequences. He said/she said in court is going to result in the court upholding the original contract. How does he intend to prove that the recruiter promised him something? Almost everyone in Basic thinks their recruiter "screwed" him somehow**
• Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:27:00 GMT(9)
• If he was lied to, and this contributed to his joining the military, then he can ask to be discharged. If the military refuses, he can take the matter to court. The main problem would probably be evidentiary, meaning that if it is just his word agains theirs it will be hard to convince the court a fraud took place. At any rate, he should report that he was lied to. If they are defrauding recruits then he probably isn't the first, and an investigation might save others the problem in the future.
• Sat, 15 Dec 2007 00:24:00 GMT(10)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by redleg17

  Which is why he is going to lose in court. Recruiters are usually pretty smart about not having their shady promises documented....they violate service policy and will have career consequences. He said/she said in court is going to result in the court upholding the original contract. How does he intend to prove that the recruiter promised him something? Almost everyone in Basic thinks their recruiter "screwed" him somehow**

  
  not to be rude but what part of illegal dont you understand? we had the guy that is head of recuriting for all of the navy on the phone and told him everything and even he said that it was illegal but without a paper trail even he cant do anything! going off of one of your other reply to my post he not only had the recruiter but the liaison as well, and come to find our it wasnt just my boyfriend that was hit with this low blow but quite a few others.
• Fri, 23 Nov 2007 02:34:00 GMT(11)
• The old bait and switch? Nooo recruiters would never do that.
  Anyways in the Navy nukes are in very high demand, if he was not picked up as one before he left for boot camp then he did not meet the requirements. What rate did he come in as on his contract? Or did he come in undesignated?
• Sat, 15 Dec 2007 07:56:00 GMT(12)
• I am still waiting to find out what MOS was actually in his contract...
  Dollars to donuts he was undesignated.
• Fri, 23 Nov 2007 03:47:00 GMT(13)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by redleg17

  Good luck fighting that in a court. The very bottom of the first page of an enlistment contract:
  "The agreements in this section and attached annex(es) are all the promises made to me by the Government. ANYTHING ELSE ANYONE HAS PROMISED ME IS NOT VALID AND WILL NOT BE HONORED." ... with a block for the recruits initials
  That's a slam-dunk for the government in a civil court... the recruit aknowledged that his contract represented the entirety of the promises made to him by the government. In 12 years between the Reserves and Active-Duty...I've never seen any get out of a contract because "the recruiter promised me...".

  It certainly isn't a "slam dunk," as long as the enlistee can provide evidence that the recruiter defrauded him. That boilerplate statement on the contract is what is known as a "merger clause" and it does not keep someone from bringing a case of fraud. There is a principle in contract law that, particularly if there is a merger clause, then a court will look only at what is within the "four corners" of the contract to decide disagreements. One of the exceptions to this rule, however, is when there is "fraud at the inception", i.e. a person was defrauded into signing the original contract. In that case, the court will typically take other evidence (testimony, drafts, etc.) to help it decide if a fraud was indeed perpetrated.
• Thu, 22 Nov 2007 21:48:00 GMT(14)
• Good luck fighting that in a court. The very bottom of the first page of an enlistment contract:
  "The agreements in this section and attached annex(es) are all the promises made to me by the Government. ANYTHING ELSE ANYONE HAS PROMISED ME IS NOT VALID AND WILL NOT BE HONORED." ... with a block for the recruits initials
  That's a slam-dunk for the government in a civil court... the recruit aknowledged that his contract represented the entirety of the promises made to him by the government. In 12 years between the Reserves and Active-Duty...I've never seen any get out of a contract because "the recruiter promised me...".
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