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youtube- the new poor man copyright (Intellectual Property)

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• Sun, 18 May 2008 10:09:00 GMT(1)
• Your work is protected by copyright from the moment is fixed in tangible form. Registration gives some benefits, but it's not an outright requirement.
  These supposed "poor man's copyright" dodges, do absolutely nothing for you legally.
  They won't help you in the registration issue you are talking about.
• Sun, 18 May 2008 13:59:00 GMT(2)
• If they want to sue in federal court, if they want preferential damages, etc... Yes, they must register before they go to court. If they want the assumption of priority, they must register in a timely fashion.
  The youtube or the "mailed to mysefl" dodge gets you nothing.
• Tue, 20 May 2008 07:01:00 GMT(3)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by justalayman

  Ok, picture this. I have a video in my camera filmed Monday. Somebody borrows my vid cam Tuesday with the vid still in the cam. They see my vid and then post it on youtube along with the timestamp...whatever on Tuesday.. I then register the copyright on Wednesday and post it to youtube on Thursday.
  How does the timestamp prove the borrower is the true owner of the video?
  It doesn't. It will take more than that to claim ownership.
  So, based upon what the OP stated, he does not have a viable claim without some other supporting evidence.
  Now, since I did register it first and within the 5 year period, my copyright is presumed to be valid.
  Now, the other person has to prove they are in fact the rightful owner rather than simply claiming I am not. The time stamp isn't going to do that.
  On top of that, he doesn't appear to have the $45 needed to register his copyright so where the heck is he going to get the money to sue me?

  
  1- you are assuming that the person who steals my work posted on youtube is sb i know (u say borrow) .. i agree that would be difficult to prove.. but what if there are no relations what so ever between two parties and that can be proved in court?
  2- i do have 45$ but if i am going to copyright a number of work that number is multiplied and then i cant afford it.. plus i think should an infringement happen there are lawyers who get paid when the case is settled?
  3- OK lets assume this scenario again.
  i post orignal work on youtube... sb steals it and uses it then register it to his name at a time later than my upload... i then go and register it myself obviously at a time later than his registeration., the reason to regestir is to be able to file for court..
  NOW, from a legal point of view, given the facts, my time on upload is the earliest, my register is later than his** who is more likely to WIN
• Sun, 18 May 2008 19:00:00 GMT(4)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by The Occultist

  Justalayman, isn't that what Ron said?

  No. In response to me and this comment:
  

  Quote:

  if they want to defend their works and their copyright, there must be a registered copyright.

  Ron posted this:
  

  Quote:

  If they want to sue in federal court, if they want preferential damages, etc... Yes, they must register before they go to court. If they want the assumption of priority, they must register in a timely fashion.

  the copyright office does not specify any reduced damages for not filing a copyright. It simply states:
  

  Quote:

  Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration is necessary for works of U.S. origin

  Now, he may have been speaking of some state level copyright law which I have no idea about but basically, from the horses mouth (US Copyright Office) they simply state that to file suit for copyright infringement, you must have a registered copyright.
  The Us Copyright Office does specify that there are various levels of claims based upon when the copyright is registered compared to its creation but that is all I see that would be similar to what Ron is stating.
  Not my words; theirs.
• Mon, 19 May 2008 00:02:00 GMT(5)
• Maybe there is a little confusion here. I think both you AND Ron are right, and maybe are talking past each other.
  1. Copyright registration is permissive. 17 USC 408(a).
  2. A copyright MUST be registered in order to enforce the copyright IN COURT. 17 USC 411(a). There are a couple of exceptions for certain types of sound recordings, and no registration is required to "enforce" the patent in the broader sense, such as seeking some sort of out-of-court settlement, or filing a takedown notice under 17 USC 512(c).
  3. A registration applied for within 5 years of first publication is prima facie evidence of the validity of the copyright. 17 USC 410(c). In other words, if a registration is filed within 5 years of first publication, the presumption is that the copyright is valid and enforceable. Registrations filed after the 5-year period obtain no legal presumption of validity.
  4. Statutory damages and attorneys fees are only available as a remedy if the registration is obtained before the infringing act occurs. 17 USC 412. There are some exceptions for works that have been "preregistered," but this is the general rule.
  Maybe that will clear things up a little bit.
• Sun, 18 May 2008 11:45:00 GMT(6)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by FlyingRon

  Your work is protected by copyright from the moment is fixed in tangible form. Registration gives some benefits, but it's not an outright requirement.
  These supposed "poor man's copyright" dodges, do absolutely nothing for you legally.
  They won't help you in the registration issue you are talking about.

  if they want to defend their works and their copyright, there must be a registered copyright.
• Sun, 18 May 2008 16:51:00 GMT(7)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by FlyingRon

  If they want to sue in federal court, if they want preferential damages, etc... Yes, they must register before they go to court. If they want the assumption of priority, they must register in a timely fashion.
  The youtube or the "mailed to mysefl" dodge gets you nothing.

  this is from the copyrights office faq:
  

  Quote:

  Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
  No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section ̶ ;Copyright Registration.”

  and the continuation of that faq:
  

  Quote:

  Copyright Registration
  In general, copyright registration is a legal formality intended to make a public record of the basic facts of a particular copyright. However, registration is not a condition of copyright protection. Even though registration is not a requirement for protection, the copyright law provides several inducements or advantages to encourage copyright owners to make registration. Among these advantages are the following:
  Registration establishes a public record of the copyright claim.
  Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration is necessary for works of U.S. origin.
  If made before or within 5 years of publication, registration will establish prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate.
  If registration is made within 3 months after publication of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney's fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner.
  Registration allows the owner of the copyright to record the registration with the U. S. Customs Service for protection against the importation of infringing copies. For additional information, go to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection website at www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/import. Click on ̶ ;Intellectual Property Rights.”
  Registration may be made at any time within the life of the copyright. Unlike the law before 1978, when a work has been registered in unpublished form, it is not necessary to make another registration when the work becomes published, although the copyright owner may register the published edition, if desired.

  I'll tend to take their word about it over yours Ron.
• Mon, 19 May 2008 15:10:00 GMT(8)
• I don't think this discussion is what the OP is really asking. I'm sure if he were to go to court, then he would have to register it to file lawsuit. But having other forms of evidence such as youtube uploading or email attachments would still form evidence since it is time stamped. The other person may have Prima Facie evidence if they stole the idea and registered it, but Prima Facie evidence can still be overturned.
• Mon, 19 May 2008 19:47:00 GMT(9)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by breakaway

  I don't think this discussion is what the OP is really asking. I'm sure if he were to go to court, then he would have to register it to file lawsuit. But having other forms of evidence such as youtube uploading or email attachments would still form evidence since it is time stamped. The other person may have Prima Facie evidence if they stole the idea and registered it, but Prima Facie evidence can still be overturned.

  Ok, picture this. I have a video in my camera filmed Monday. Somebody borrows my vid cam Tuesday with the vid still in the cam. They see my vid and then post it on youtube along with the timestamp...whatever on Tuesday.. I then register the copyright on Wednesday and post it to youtube on Thursday.
  How does the timestamp prove the borrower is the true owner of the video?
  It doesn't. It will take more than that to claim ownership.
  So, based upon what the OP stated, he does not have a viable claim without some other supporting evidence.
  Now, since I did register it first and within the 5 year period, my copyright is presumed to be valid.
  Now, the other person has to prove they are in fact the rightful owner rather than simply claiming I am not. The time stamp isn't going to do that.
  On top of that, he doesn't appear to have the $45 needed to register his copyright so where the heck is he going to get the money to sue me?
• Sun, 18 May 2008 20:28:00 GMT(10)

• Quote:

  the copyright office does not specify any reduced damages for not filing a copyright. It simply states:

  What Ron was talking about was likely "statutory damages," and statutory damages are only available if the copyright was registered prior to the infringement occurring. See 17 USC 412. Also, you can't recover attorney's fees under 17 USC 505 without prior registration.
  This is important because it can be quite difficult, or even impossible, to prove damages from infringement when an author or creator puts up their work for public viewing -- statutory damages are the only monetary damages available in those situations.
• Sun, 18 May 2008 14:02:00 GMT(11)

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by mocj 7

  lets assume this scenario;
  i posted original work on youtube at a particular time, after a while i find that some one is using my work illegally and commercially and that he has registered it in the us copyright office to his name BUT at a time later that my upload to youtube time stamp... so i go to court ..
  who should win the copyright ownership claim?
  me, with the original content uploaded to youtube at a certain time
  other party, with a registered copyright at a later time
  it just dont make sense to me that a court will favor the one with the registered copyright when there is a clear proof that the same original content has been linked to somebody else at an earlier time... but then i am not a lawyer
  if this is not the case, then what happen in cases where a close person to the creator steal the original work and copyright it to himself before the original creator gets a chance to do so?
  how to protect my original work with no registering, i just cant afford it

  You can't afford $45?
  If not, then put your copyright notice on it before you publish and hope for the best.
• Sun, 18 May 2008 21:01:00 GMT(12)
• but aren;t those the seperate listed damages in this:
  http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#cr
  If so, I was merely repeating their statement of registration being required to file suit.
  

  Quote:

  Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration is necessary for works of U.S. origin.

  They did not define this as a requirement only for being able to claim the additioanl damages you spoke of. They appeared to be stating it as a blanket statement that it was simply a requirement to register if you intend to file suit at all.
  I could be wrong. I have been before.
• Sun, 18 May 2008 18:31:00 GMT(13)
• Justalayman, isn't that what Ron said?
• Sun, 18 May 2008 13:58:00 GMT(14)
• lets assume this scenario;
  i posted original work on youtube at a particular time, after a while i find that some one is using my work illegally and commercially and that he has registered it in the us copyright office to his name BUT at a time later that my upload to youtube time stamp... so i go to court ..
  who should win the copyright ownership claim?
  me, with the original content uploaded to youtube at a certain time
  other party, with a registered copyright at a later time
  it just dont make sense to me that a court will favor the one with the registered copyright when there is a clear proof that the same original content has been linked to somebody else at an earlier time... but then i am not a lawyer
  if this is not the case, then what happen in cases where a close person to the creator steal the original work and copyright it to himself before the original creator gets a chance to do so?
  how to protect my original work with no registering, i just cant afford it
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